David HollandFair enough. But "democratic" or not (rather questionable anyway, since the entire campaign was founded on bullshit), right or wrong, up or down...
... the "value" of a British passport isn't what it used to be, and 6 quid isn't what's changed that. Yet ironically, that's apparently everybody else's fault, which is the most amusing part. But to be expected.
... and it's not all about Britain. It may seem that way to Brits, but there's a much larger world outside the "British Isles" that this applies to. Yet that's beside the point, eh?
Morgan WilliamsWell that was the democratic choice Morgan , free will and all that , for what ever reason that individual had, some one asked and that was the answer. Good, bad , right or wrong.
Even the remain cheerleaders Starmer and Gina Miller have finally accepted that.
I read a interesting article of a opinion piece give by Barnier. at some think tank.
It’s a good insight from a man that was in the thick of the exit negotiations.
Some of his comments today if they had been mainstream during the Cameron pre referendum discussion with the European Union.
Well we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation now , possibly.
David HollandUp until a few years ago, Britain was the globally recognised front door to the world's 2nd largest economy (by a rather small margin).
Today, it's just an island off the coast of it. Struggling to replace not only the politico-economic losses, but also the decline of global identity.
tranq tranquerWell we haven’t done world domination for a while now.
And most Brits don’t except to be treated any better or worse than other nationals.
I certainly don’t.
What we are is a small country with a big economy
The decline of U.K. manufacturing started in the 60s and accelerated after joining the ecc.
To be replaced with services based businesses and a very large financial sector.
A reliance on small businesses for most employment and niche high value manufacturing.
The U.K. will in the near future be a much smaller world economy. As will most European states.
India , Malaysia, will be the coming superpowers .parts of southern americas and Africa if they get their act together.. the political centre of Europe is moving east.
It’s unlikely that a European state will be in top ten of world economies by 2030.
All mature Economies will need to readjust to the new world.
Population growth , resources and demand is elsewhere mainly Asia and Africa. I doubt they will give any consideration to the old powers to achieve their objectives.
@Morgan Williams for me the question is how much farther has the country got left to fall. From the heady days of world domination we quite naturally began a downward trajectory sometime ago. Now when will we reach the bottom. Brexit was big boost to this fall and is undoubtedly the third factor, combined with Covid and Ukraine which makes us lag behind all the other developed countries when it comes to recovery. When you have reached the top of the mountain the distance downwards is all the greater. Out in the third world no doubt one can still wave a British passport and get some measure of respect. In the bits of the world most people take notice of look at the headline above, remove " will soon lose" and insert " losing" .
Morgan WilliamsThe British isles have always been islands of the west coast of Eurasia certainly since the end of the last ice age.
The same as Japan are islands off the east coast of Eurasia .
And by inference the USA is a small part of an large island half way between the two.
As for passports a Uk one will take you to the same places they always have done…
As for European Union entry fee, well £2 a year for Brits , Yanks and Japanese is hardly a deterrent if you can afford the fare.
By the way...
British passports lost their value some time ago. Now it's just an island off the coast of Europe.
NedYou are right, add Cameron to the list.
Oddly, over 170 countries are subject to the very same entry requirements, yet none of them imply it's about them specifically. I suppose it's because it's not unusual these days. The yanks charge non-americans $21 for a 2 year pass.
And speaking of Americans, for example, they seem to be showing up in Mallorca in droves nowadays and apparently have lots of good things to say about it. Yet I haven't seen any mention of passport controls or this apparent atrocity in US media, nor any implication or thinly veiled undertone that it's all about them, nor any subliminal suggestion of anti-american sentiment.
But then, they have no need to be defensive.
Zoltan TeglasIf finger pointing at politicians is the game then I would mostly point it at Cameron for allowing the vote in the first place, for allowing it in the way that it was worded and for straight up losing!
While it can be said of many that they were massively "mislead" by Johnson and Farage but at the end of the day each individual is responsible for the vote they casted, or didn't cast. The UK did it to themselves.
From the perspective of someone that is both non-British and non-European I lay the largest blame on Cameron and the Torries for how the referendum was conducted. There should be been a higher bar set in the first place (such as a 60% leave vote required to be absolutely sure and close down finger pointing there is now) plus a mandatory Brexit plan laid out so that everyone knew what type of Brexit was to be had and what it would look like. The way it was conducted suggested to me that the Torries simply didn't think they could possibly lose the vote from the outset.